Work Blog - JeffR

297 posts Page 29 of 30
JeffR
Steering Committee
Steering Committee
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:49 pm
 
by JeffR » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:50 am
Made more sense to do a development thread for the game class conversion in particular so we can track on that better:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1330
Razer
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:29 am
  by Razer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:55 pm

[mention]As a good artist I can tell you, that programming is the single most important skill in making games, everything else is optional.[/mention]

There is lot of Unity games made using plugins and game templates by people that don't know anything about coding, and hundred mobile games also made without any coding.
It looks like you are not very aware of Unity vast possibilities

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeVCEVcI9TY[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETB4lxG2sCE[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFqS-mP8nt8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5HXc2siNtg[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBiAX2aW0bw[/youtube]


[mention]Then just add those features, if you are just waiting for others to do everything for you for free, you will probably be waiting until eternity.[/mention]

I was looking as Torque 3D as some alternative but we don't know when it will get those features, or will it be stable and working well ?
To many uncertain things while Unity already have those.
Razer
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:29 am
by Razer » Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:57 pm

[mention]As a good artist I can tell you, that programming is the single most important skill in making games, everything else is optional.[/mention]

There is lot of Unity games made using plugins and game templates by people that don't know anything about coding, and hundred mobile games also made without any coding.
It looks like you are not very aware of Unity vast possibilities

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeVCEVcI9TY[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETB4lxG2sCE[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFqS-mP8nt8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5HXc2siNtg[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBiAX2aW0bw[/youtube]


[mention]Then just add those features, if you are just waiting for others to do everything for you for free, you will probably be waiting until eternity.[/mention]

I can't code those features, like million people i'm not an engine coder but a 3D engine user.
I was looking as Torque 3D as some alternative but we don't know when it will get those features, or will it be stable and working well ?
This is too many uncertain things while Unity already have those and more and it's stable and prooven with mobiles and PC games available.
Timmy
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:20 am
by Timmy » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:35 am

[mention]As a good artist I can tell you, that programming is the single most important skill in making games, everything else is optional.[/mention]

There is lot of Unity games made using plugins and game templates by people that don't know anything about coding, and hundred mobile games also made without any coding.
It looks like you are not very aware of Unity vast possibilities

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeVCEVcI9TY[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETB4lxG2sCE[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFqS-mP8nt8[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5HXc2siNtg[/youtube]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBiAX2aW0bw[/youtube]


[mention]Then just add those features, if you are just waiting for others to do everything for you for free, you will probably be waiting until eternity.[/mention]

I can't code those features, like million people i'm not an engine coder but a 3D engine user.
I was looking as Torque 3D as some alternative but we don't know when it will get those features, or will it be stable and working well ?
This is too many uncertain things while Unity already have those and more and it's stable and prooven with mobiles and PC games available.
Here ya go, two links to help you on your way ;)
https://unity3d.com/get-unity/download
https://forum.unity.com/
Razer
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:29 am
by Razer » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:45 am
This is a matter of choice.
Wait a lot for features not coming or wait and see if things become stable and usable with less bugs and spend lot of time coding what is missing (if you like coding engine features)
or
Start making your game because you have more than what you need.

It will take a lot for Torque 3D to become the new and better Torque 3D, until that happens Unity is definitively the best choice for people that want to focus on creating their game and not coding the 3D engine or waiting for what is missing.
JeffR
Steering Committee
Steering Committee
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:49 pm
 
by JeffR » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:01 am
Ultimately, what it boils down to is that Torque has a ton of systems and utilities built in already. You're right, with other engines you can wisk off to the app store, drop dozens or hundreds of dollars and get an addon to drop in.

One of the things I've been leaning on is simpler editor tool implementation, modularity and addon support. Comined with the planned online store, the hope is to end out in a similar position on that end IN ADDITION to the useful pre-existing stable of functionality T3D already offers.

Beyond that, however, is code on the backend, underneath all those useful exising utility and game classes that needs some updating, which is what a large part of my workblog is about - the ongoing work that goes into those updates.

Does anyone here *expect* you to learn C++ and contribute to the engine work? Not really, no. But ultimately, if the only contribution you can provide is a wishlist, or pointing at another engine and saying 'they've got X', then that info - while useful - is a lot less useful than someone that can specifically contribute to the work coming up in here.

My end goal is to get the engine to a point where at *minimum* you don't need to crack open the C++ code unless you wanna do some funky custom stuff, or you're in the optimization stages and are moving code from script to C++ for performance reasons, but it's not fully there yet.

But the ultimate reality is that regardless of what type of game you're making, or what engine you ultimately use, it's easy to say "I shouldn't have to learn the innerworkings of the engine to make a game" but the reality is that ALL games, projects and engines are going to have some deep bugs, limitations or usability issues in one way or another, and familiarity with the underpinnings of the engine does a lot to not only deal with those problems, but also convey useful info to the people who can fix it if you can't.

You may not need real C++ knowledge as an artist, and you aren't really *expected* to know it either. But I'd say that, realistically, having at least a basic understanding of how the engine functions is something anyone using an engine needs.

Anyways, I really hope you keep an eye on T3D, because its going to keep getting better and better, but if it doesn't currently suit your needs and you don't want to wait for the currently ongoing work, there are definitely other options that can work for you in the meantime and we can see you back here later.
Azaezel
Posts: 409
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:50 pm
 
by Azaezel » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:03 am
@
User avatar
Razer
: you were given 4 options to stop spamming up a work thread with side conversations. Please pick one.

@
User avatar
Skipper
: Personal opinion on the notion of a clean core based on T2D goes, the pros are the cons on either side. Lack of pre-existing subsystems does mean they need to be written in. (examples: server/client protocols are pretty much nonexistent on the 2D side, up to and including a lack of task-specific scene management on either end of the connection. (servers need to track everything, clients are better off with a subset+anything purely displayed on a given client.) While it's entirely possible, and I can be persuaded that it may even be desirable, given the other side of that is a from-scratch write up would be good for a full-on concept review, the pragmatist in me leans more towards incrementalism. Though as always on big tasks, it really boils down to what do the majority of folks willing to put sweat into pulling it off want.
JeffR
Steering Committee
Steering Committee
Posts: 840
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:49 pm
 
by JeffR » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:12 am
@
User avatar
Skipper

As I've been doing my research on it, I started with a leaning towards T2D as the cleancore base, but I've been gravitating towards a incremental refactor of T3D in-place with T2D as a sort of reference guide/crib sheet. I'll be doing up a post here soon going into my findings relating to that in particular.

Implications-wise, much like what Az said, in-place refactoring would have the big advantage of being incremenetal and thus easier to spread out over time and updates, instead of one massive 'do it all now' which is obviously waaaaay easier to keep pace on.

For the mobile platform question, that gets....weird.
iOS uses metal or OpenGLES, and android uses Vulkan or OpenGLES. T2D currently implements OpenGLES for it's rendering logic to facilitate the mobile platforms, which also ultimately works on desktops anyways.

However, the long-term play would be getting metal and vulkan working for better performance anyways. OpenGLES is kinda limited features-wise, so it wouldn't be useful to stick to that.

Further, while T2D has it's platform layers for the mobile platforms written already, SDL also implements platform handling for mobile stuffs, so that's sorta taken care of already in a way.

If we were to target mobile platforms as a farther-out goal, then under the presumption that we implement vulkan in the future eventually, we can implement MoltenVK for the metal implementation and that'd largely take care of the graphical side. This would happen this way regardless of if we stick with T3D's core or T2D's since - as said, we definitely wouldn't be keeping T2D's OpenGLES implementation.

In short, for mobile platforms, using T2D's core or not almost doesn't matter.
Julius
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:45 pm
by Julius » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:57 pm
As I've been doing my research on it, I started with a leaning towards T2D as the cleancore base, but I've been gravitating towards a incremental refactor of T3D in-place with T2D as a sort of reference guide/crib sheet. I'll be doing up a post here soon going into my findings relating to that in particular.
As a Patreon backer is is good news. As much as I agree that Torque3D is full of cruft, its strength is still the backlog of working stuff and implementation examples etc. It would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater to strip out the core like originally proposed.

Personally I think the top-priority should be to get a new stable release out (call it 4.0 or not) with some nice new features and the updated templates. Linux binaries would be also great.
Razer
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:29 am
by Razer » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:18 pm
But the ultimate reality is that regardless of what type of game you're making, or what engine you ultimately use, it's easy to say "I shouldn't have to learn the innerworkings of the engine to make a game" but the reality is that ALL games, projects and engines are going to have some deep bugs, limitations or usability issues in one way or another, and familiarity with the underpinnings of the engine does a lot to not only deal with those problems, but also convey useful info to the people who can fix it if you can't.

You may not need real C++ knowledge as an artist, and you aren't really *expected* to know it either. But I'd say that, realistically, having at least a basic understanding of how the engine functions is something anyone using an engine needs.

Anyways, I really hope you keep an eye on T3D, because its going to keep getting better and better, but if it doesn't currently suit your needs and you don't want to wait for the currently ongoing work, there are definitely other options that can work for you in the meantime and we can see you back here later.
Nope.
No one knows how works Unity engine because the source is not available, users focus on game creation , not in engine bugs or adding features to the engine.
All people using Unity focus on creating the game , not the features, while making plugins is possible.
And i never had a bug stopping a game in the makings, from simple game to lot more complex one, when there was a bug on a some more complex game i found a work around.
Open source and commercial engines are not adressed to exactly the same kind of people.

Ultimately, what it boils down to is that Torque has a ton of systems and utilities built in already. You're right, with other engines you can wisk off to the app store, drop dozens or hundreds of dollars and get an addon to drop in.

One of the things I've been leaning on is simpler editor tool implementation, modularity and addon support. Comined with the planned online store, the hope is to end out in a similar position on that end IN ADDITION to the useful pre-existing stable of functionality T3D already offers.
Sure modularity and addon support is a vast improvment, that way Torque will be interesting, and a store should get people selling plugins to expand Torque 3D beyond it's capabilities.
297 posts Page 29 of 30

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest