Pre-Release Candidate 4.0 build

This forum is for tracking and working on active issues that need to be resolved, as well as testing Pull Requests that are waiting to be integrated into Torque 3D.
56 posts Page 5 of 6
Bishop
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:30 am
by Bishop » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:09 am
I think the development to improve the engine is great....modules/assets + build-in live scripting with debugging in editor = really improve workflow with Torque engine....also project manager Will be great...all this means more joy in game development and it means more new community members...
...and PBR for Torque ...for a new great graphic and better looking assets....all means a sea of ​​work and enthusiasm .... thank god this engine has such great developers.
JeffR
Steering Committee
Steering Committee
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by JeffR » Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:08 am
Man, look what happens when I get too nose-to-grindstone and forget a workblog update! So I missed my usual monthly-ish target which is definitely my bad, but that means this update'll be packed, but man we've been crunching on stuff.

Well, you know what? Lets get that taken care of now then!

I figure i'd preface things now by saying that the Preview build people have been graciously beating on for testing has worked as an absolute gem for spotting issues and us doing pretty rapid testing on. And that's the important part. While we are bringing T3D up to modern snuff, the Preview builds have been line a 90% focus on bugfixing and catching stuff that's needed to get the work done. Almost nothing that's gone in it so far has been a random off the wall 'hey lets add this because it'd be cool' bullet point - especially not in an attempt to blow-for-blow match AAA funded engines.

It's important to understand that this line:
Perhaps Torque 4 need to shift goals from trying to grow as big realistic 3D engine, to small but very usable and customizable engine.
Is very much the point. I've made it pretty clear on the discord that I angle at things from a "does this actually help people get their games made" and all the extra cool doodads are just bulletpoint fluff. Yeah, it's NEAT to have a full augmented reality, realtime cinematic blending of prerendered movies and game render and all that jazz. But 99.99% of people aren't ever going to use it for their games. We're not in the business of making movies. I'll leave that to hollywood and 3ds max, maya, blender, and all that.

We're here to make games, so we're going to implement stuff that facilitates that, and that alone.

Which I think is part of why 4.0's going to be pretty neat. Sure, you've got your obvious stuff like getting PBR implemented to bring things to modern standard. But other things, like the asset pipeline which leans on a smart importer to try and streamline/semi-automate bringing assets in and other such tools are designed to help people just get their work done. Technically, for a wider audience outside this community, because we've focused on those low-level usability/refinement improvements, we have less flashy stuff to show off to draw attention.

But there's time for loading up on cool art and demos as 4.0 nears release. For now, adding stuff to make getting work done faster, easier and more reliable, and fixing issues and polishing everything to a mirror sheen is much more important. In the discord a HUGE focus has been getting bugs squashed, what problems people run into when trying to import/convert assets and resources, how to get levels and scenes and gameplay working. All of this to create a very open and crazy flexible platform, and with this workblog update, hopefully you'll get a whiff of that.

Plus, if you can/are inclined to, should nerd out in the discord with us. Great place for testing and feedback of stuff very quickly :P

Anywho!
Regarding the builds, I should have the next build up tomorrow to coincide with the workblog tomorrow. It's a pretty long one so it's taking a while to get put together.
XIXWYRMEXIX
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:13 pm
by XIXWYRMEXIX » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:17 pm
I'm not sure there's a lot of complaining so much as the annoying whine of "are we there yet" from as far as I can tell a variety of people who do little else. This 'are we there yet' crew exists in all formats, from the forums to discord, usually from people who are new and don't know where to find the news (hint: it's just past the lair of the minotaur, you brought string right?) and generally dont hang around more than 10 minutes to hear the answers.
It is not crazy or strange to assume an update will be listed on the game engines site. People shouldn't have to track down an update by going to discord or analyzing the code. Simple updates on the website of the engine is and should be normal, especially considering we all want to promote the game engine and make it grow. I am offended you seem to lump a bunch of people together including myself as a "whiner" who does little else. Asking for an update is not "whining", I have been nothing but polite in my inquiries, I am not demanding it be done now, I am and have been patiently awaiting updates from Jeff or anyone else, fully knowing this is a volunteer project. Quite frankly you sound like some elitist mule. Because people love to use an engine when they ask about it and are called whiners who do nothing by a developer of said engine on their public forums (which IS the logical place most people will go for information about the engine).
Bloodknight
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:58 pm
by Bloodknight » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:52 pm
updates: such as they are, are generally found here, I see a relatively constant stream of information in there. if you want more detailed information, then yes you need to do more work, deal with it, because of the small size of the 'workforce' updates are likely to be slow, so yes, if you want MORE information you have to visit the sources of the information, this is a basic/trivial academic exercise.

as for the website, sadly pretty much everyone knows this is an utterly useless waste of space mainly due to lack of organisation and coordination from aeons past, that has yet to be corrected, because of the small or should i say ridiculous tiny number of available manhours available to the even smaller number of people able to effect such changes.

Torque is a functioning engine if people who do nothing except ask when the latest and greatest new version is coming out and do apparently nothing except constantly asking 'are we there yet' then, I'm not about to apologise.

Since you go out of your way to shitpost on my name in particular and be 'offended' when clearly you are not qualified or intended to be lumped into the group I mentioned, I can only assume you are some kind of bleeding heart ultra-liberal who gets all white-knighty on my ass because of a few half-assed sarcastic comments. Just out of curiosity, will you get triggered if I post Tucker Carlson links?

[Moderator's Note: The meme image wasn't necessary and doesn't contribute to discussion]
JeffR
Steering Committee
Steering Committee
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:49 pm
 
by JeffR » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:11 pm
Really not necessary, guys. Ix-nay.

@
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XIXWYRMEXIX
Yeah, been trying to figure out how to best update/rework the landing page for going forward. As blood noted, it's currently not very useful, part of that is because as neat as it is that it's flexible to update being git-driven, it also means that it's not quite as easy to post/update stuff as, say, a wordpress site. Tony from the discord's been putting some ideas forward we've been mulling on to get the landing page updated with an easier channel to, at minimum, link back against stuff like my workblog.

Mack's also going to help run the twitter going forward, so once we're a bit more ready for wider attention, we'll be pushing updates along that channel as well.

So going forward, yeah I definitely want to have a more outward-pushing stream for updates. But in the current term, easiest route for people'll just be to keep an eye on the workblog or chum around in the discord.
XIXWYRMEXIX
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:13 pm
by XIXWYRMEXIX » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:37 pm
I will just ignore Blood like I do Duion as I consider them the same class of people, Jeff. I did nothing except ask about a status which is natural when something new is coming out in ANY subject on said subjects website. You know, in the thread about the progress of the project. His response is laughable to me anyway, as none of it has anything to do with reality. I am "triggered" yet he is the one throwing memes and more insults. I did not nor have ever demanded results by x date, have never said the team needs to do anything in regards to timetable, features, or give reports on any timetable. I just asked and was insulted. Also note I am not asking every day or week, I have inquired once a month, and last time almost once in 2 months, hardly someone demanding anything or whining about anything. Does that mean anyone new coming here gets the same treatment? Yeah that's the way to promote the engine and its use.

So I will now ix nay it as requested. Blood need not respond as I now have him ignored. No big deal. I will continue to ask about the status however, especially considering this SHOULD be the place and thread such an inquiry actually belongs on a forum dedicated to said engine. I am about promoting this engine and doing what I can to make it better, for ANYONE that wants to use it. I want this engine to do better, it is a fantastic engine and deserves to be more recognized as a tool for building games. As I have said repeatedly in other posts, I have nothing but respect for the devs and am thankful they put in the time and effort on their own for making this project move forward.

In regards to the landing site in particular and the website in general yes I have noticed it has become dated, with old information, old tutorials, and some broken links here and there. I am hoping it can be cleaned up and redone eventually, the landing site and the forums are the forward public face of the engine and will turn some people off from using the engine. I know peoples time is limited and have no idea on who or when such a spring cleaning can take place but knowing it has been brought up (both in the forum thread about the site and you just now), is a good thing. I would volunteer but I am not a webdev, I know just enough to make me dangerous in that realm and just enough to make TERRIBLE websites. I am currently slowly collecting a lot of the older tutorials and updating them for 3.10/4.0, its one of the things I can do.
marauder2k9
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:36 am
by marauder2k9 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:50 pm
on the website front, we were having a conversation in the forums before about changing certain things, but it seems that changing too much is a bad move due to google and such. Although i did go ahead and make a few mock designs using wordpress if its at all inclined for anyone to see them i can upload them to my server and let you guys see what yas think?
XIXWYRMEXIX
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:13 pm
by XIXWYRMEXIX » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:03 am
on the website front, we were having a conversation in the forums before about changing certain things, but it seems that changing too much is a bad move due to google and such. Although i did go ahead and make a few mock designs using wordpress if its at all inclined for anyone to see them i can upload them to my server and let you guys see what yas think?
I suppose it then becomes a question of at what point does sliding in google ranks as opposed to making the site actually reflect the current engine and current wiki/tutorials/assets. At what point does it become "needed" to change it in spite of any google results? I would love to see your mock ups personally, I am sure others would as well. Though this is starting to derail the thread and I suppose the conversation should be moved to the appropriate thread. If you can post the mockup in the websites thread so people can check it out I think that would be a good thing. Then everyone can check it out and give feedback. Changing the site will have to be done eventually. It will just keep getting longer in the tooth and slide further from the current development of the engine.

Sorry for the derailment of the topic.
marauder2k9
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:36 am
by marauder2k9 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:09 am
no problem ill get them up and post links in the website topic
Bloodknight
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:58 pm
by Bloodknight » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:16 am
its not just the website, tho calling the spiderweb-like system we have in place a website in the singular is a little generous, one of the problems is there's nigh on 2 decades of internet data with regards torque, there's a lot of misdirects, there's still a lot of stuff that points to GG and they haven't cared in a decade. there's at least 3 different hosts for the main parts of the site, the forums, the wiki and the front pages.

Wikidot is a surprisingly decent host as far as the wiki is concerned even if the format is non-standard and no usable helper applications exist.

Forums are forums, I have a preference for SMF myself but they all operate the same way (well, so long as you keep Lukas and his hello kitty personality subdued)

Access to the main website seems to be the issue, perhaps if the entire website was redirected to the wiki and the frontpages reworked into Wikidot format, while I haven't explored nor do I understand it, GitHub also has its own website system that can be pointed at so the entirety of the current site and wiki site cold be redirected to the torque GitHub organisation. this would if nothing else at least centalise the control and the organisation responsible areas.
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