Is this forum ruled by despotism?

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Online Duion
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:51 am
 
  by Duion » Sat May 23, 2020 7:19 pm
After repeatedly being accused of somehow breaking forum rules that do not even exist, while not even bothering to mention the rules I supposedly have broken, I begin to wonder if it is about the rules at all.

To me it looks like this is the rule of despotism, the worst kind of government one can have. I'm here since the beginning as Torque3D was open sourced,I use it to build real things,know things for real and help people for real, but now somehow I find out that I need to be punished for supposedly writing an off-topic post.

Off-topic posts are natural to a discussion, things almost always go more or less off-topic, otherwise there would be no progress, so it is totally ridiculous to punish people for supposed off-topic, while nobody even bothered to define any rules in the first place.

There is just a random guy I have never seen before in the community, with no background of creating or doing anything, no portfolio, no credentials whatsoever and now somehow such a person is put onto me as an authority being allowed to warn, punish and delete my posts completely arbitrary and of course nobody else ever gets moderated or his posts deleted or warned for being off-topic (which happens all the time).

To me it just looks like some kind of intrigue to sabotage me and you better be open about who is constantly blaming me in the background and begging the admins/moderators to punish me for doing nothing wrong, since nobody even bothered to define rules and I'm not doing anything obviously wrong like insulting people with swear words, so what is the problem?
marauder2k9
Posts: 418
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:36 am
by marauder2k9 » Sat May 23, 2020 7:53 pm
After repeatedly being accused of somehow breaking forum rules that do not even exist, while not even bothering to mention the rules I supposedly have broken, I begin to wonder if it is about the rules at all.
Rules/Guidelines are right here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1593
Online Duion
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:51 am
 
by Duion » Sat May 23, 2020 8:17 pm
He just made that code of conduct up on the fly, because of me, no community was involved in creating that "community" code of conduct and before that no rules existed and everything worked just fine, before the squealer crybabies arrived. There is also no way to find the rules for newcomers, since they are not named rules and there is no link to them.

Most of the points are subjective rules like "be nice", "be respectful", "do not insult", "be constructive" and "do not troll"
All those things are up to subjective interpretation, what is "nice" to one person is not nice to another person, or who is to decide what is constructive or not? What is constructive or not will be proven in reality, you cannot just go and come with our opinion on others and delete their stuff because you think it is not constructive or delete people because you think they are a troll.

But I already posted my critique to that Code of Conduct in the appropriate thread.

Don't you get that it is all based on the opinion of one dictator? There are no definitions on what "nice" or "constructive" etc are it is entirely up to the mood of one moderator and if you question him you will get punished again.

The biggest joke is, that if others or they themselves violate their own rules, nothing happens. For example the rule: "Respect that people have differences of opinion, and that every design, implementation, or choice carries considerations, trade-offs, and costs. There is rarely ever a perfect answer." is broken all the time, because nobody seems to respect my opinions, when I have a wrong opinion I immediately get threatened with punishment.
Bloodknight
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:58 pm
by Bloodknight » Sun May 24, 2020 2:42 am
Most of the points are subjective rules like "be nice", "be respectful", "do not insult", "be constructive" and "do not troll"
And yet you seem to break all of them all of the time, and yes I have committed these sins in the past and yes I have 'met' with moderation, so please, while you do happen to be the most deserving, you are by no means alone, you arent special, you are just louder about it :)
bsisko
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:28 pm
by bsisko » Mon May 25, 2020 12:57 am
Duion, I feel you you bro. I'm with you all the way.
Online Duion
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Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:51 am
 
by Duion » Mon May 25, 2020 6:01 pm
I think I have to correct myself, the rulership here is not so much despotism, but more of a mob rule, since I think the original creators or admins are good people with good intentions and they do not even care to moderator or censor stuff.

I think it is primarily some members of the mob who are constantly screaming for punishment and censorship, because someone said things they do not like and since those people from the mob are the ones who scream the loudest the people in power do what they want, just to have them shut up.

However you should never allow the mob to rule, they will just destroy everything. Those people who scream the loudest for censorship are probably also the ones who are not doing anything for real, at least that is my impression when I look up the people who complain about me, they almost all have in common, that they have no portfolio or background in anything.

I mean if you want to get things done for real, you cannot always make your priority to "be nice" to everyone and never criticize anything or anyone. The real being nice is to tell people when they are on the wrong path instead of praising them for their wrongdoing which leads to them wasting their time and never getting anywhere.
LukasPJ
Site Admin
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:25 pm
 
by LukasPJ » Mon May 25, 2020 9:27 pm
A few topics showing up here:

"Why am I punished when all these other guys are not" - if someone is doing anything wrong, report them. I can no longer surveil all of the forums.

"Some random guy is moderating me and doing a bad job" - if it's me, take it up with Jeff, if it's someone else take it up with me. I will only act on specific examples.

"Off-topic posts are natural to a discussion" - so long as it brings value for the original poster and/or doesn't derail the thread completely. Got something completely unrelated to discuss? Create a new thread. Accidentally derailed the topic? That's cool, realize it after a few posts and create a new thread.

Lastly, on the point of the code-of-conduct. JeffR is the community leader as it stands. As far as I can tell, he is the one who is doing the primary contributions to the engine, and he's generally well-liked among the community.
If I'm wrong: start a revolt, create a petition, rally your supporters and convince me that JeffR no longer has community support.

I provide this forum as a service to the community, and I try to only intervene on direct reports. When a report happens, I try to follow the community guidelines as best, and objectively, as I can. If you believe the resulting action is wrong, please make a dispute/PM or take it up with JeffR or complain about the specific incident openly on the forums.
Online Duion
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by Duion » Mon May 25, 2020 10:15 pm
@
User avatar
LukasPJ

I have no problems with you and I don't want to start a revolt, since that would just split up people again and be less useful for everyone. The Problem is that you threw all democracy and the committee model over board while nobody had a say in it, Jeff was just the only active steering committee member left after I was thrown out of it and now as he has all the power he refuses to do anything and refuses to put new people up who want to do something.
Leadership and contributions to the engine are separate things, you don't have to be a contributor to the engine to become a committee member.
LukasPJ
Site Admin
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Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:25 pm
 
by LukasPJ » Mon May 25, 2020 10:41 pm
So, what kind of improvements do you think is necessary at this point?
And what positions do you think that we need people for / have people that could fill?

I don't think Jeff wants to run everything by himself, I think he would prefer to have a strong team. However, it can be difficult to assemble such a team, let alone define and divide responsibilities between people.
Online Duion
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:51 am
 
by Duion » Mon May 25, 2020 10:59 pm
Isn't that obvious? If he wanted a new team, he could just ask who wants to be in the team and people will show up, it is as simple as that.
Then you go into the forum settings and kick out the old nonexistent members of the team that did not show up for years and replace them with new existent ones.
Of course it will be harder now as many experienced people left or retired, but some team doing something is better than no team doing nothing.
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