Torque 3D 3.9 Released

37 posts Page 3 of 4
Hebblewhite
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:42 pm
by Hebblewhite » Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:18 pm
Ahhh I missed that thread... thanks for the update. Problem Solved.
lowlevelsoul
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:02 pm
by lowlevelsoul » Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:01 pm
JeffR wrote:We're also looking at possible C# support, based on Lukas's fine work.


I think this is a terrible idea.

The main strength of TS is that it's a scripting language aimed at making games, and even more, it's aimed at making games using Torque. Shoe-horning another general purpose language just because it's "flavour of the month" is going to be problematic, and a real turn-off. It'll have to be hacked all to hell to fit Torque and rather than elegant ways of working with scripting within the engine. There will be workarounds, hacks, and things that never work quite the way that they need to.

TS isn't broken. There's no need to fix that.
Duion
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by Duion » Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:48 pm
C# isn't an option since it is not open source, I thought this was already discussed.
LukasPJ
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by LukasPJ » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:34 pm
Duion wrote:C# isn't an option since it is not open source, I thought this was already discussed.


I'm pretty sure .net is MIT...
LukasPJ
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by LukasPJ » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:38 pm
lowlevelsoul wrote:
JeffR wrote:We're also looking at possible C# support, based on Lukas's fine work.


I think this is a terrible idea.

The main strength of TS is that it's a scripting language aimed at making games, and even more, it's aimed at making games using Torque. Shoe-horning another general purpose language just because it's "flavour of the month" is going to be problematic, and a real turn-off. It'll have to be hacked all to hell to fit Torque and rather than elegant ways of working with scripting within the engine. There will be workarounds, hacks, and things that never work quite the way that they need to.

TS isn't broken. There's no need to fix that.


C# is faster, more modern and has a lot of libraries available.. that's some of the benefits of c#.. other languages too.. ideally, being able to strip out TS could make the codebase simpler too, but that's a whole other discussion..

Anyways, as I mentioned the work I've been doing was really to enable c# to be plugged in to the engine and not build into the engine. So it's not as invasive as you think.
Duion
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by Duion » Sat Aug 13, 2016 10:38 pm
C# is dangerous: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/29 ... _software/
It may be open source, but it may also turn out as a trap, since Microsoft was always hostile to free software and very likely always will be.
T3D's main strength is the open source part and if you risk that, it is a potential suicide move.
LukasPJ
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by LukasPJ » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:05 pm
Duion wrote:C# is dangerous: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/29 ... _software/
It may be open source, but it may also turn out as a trap, since Microsoft was always hostile to free software and very likely always will be.
T3D's main strength is the open source part and if you risk that, it is a potential suicide move.


You are joining to an article which describes speculations about how a 3rd party c# implementation might be shut down by Microsoft, which 7 years later hasn't happened and are using that as an argument why Microsoft hates free software? I don't get it...
Duion
Posts: 845
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 1:51 am
 
by Duion » Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:33 pm
There is more to it, I just posted it as an example.

If you want more proofs here:

https://github.com/mono/mono/blob/master/PATENTS.TXT

and here:

http://www.mono-project.com/docs/faq/licensing/
https://github.com/mono/mono/blob/master/LICENSE

I hope you read all license agreements related to the whole framework.
A short summary, you have the point where Microsoft "promises" not to use their software patents against you.
Then you have multiple licenses for the framework that inclusde MIT, BSD and various GPL licenses.
Another point is if you embed the framework into an open source project, the .exe needs to be exchangeable and separate at all time, if you compile it into your project, then this is not possible, then you need to buy a license.

Update:
It looks like they really opensourced most of their stuff now:
http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Embed ... 62200.html
http://www.infoworld.com/article/305073 ... cense.html

But I'm still sceptical, probably they updated their license to get more stupid users to use their stuff. It looks like they still sell their license, the question is what that is supposed to be for.
Overall I think it is still dangerous.
Jason Campbell
Posts: 189
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:51 am
 
by Jason Campbell » Sun Aug 14, 2016 4:09 am
As long as TS continues to work, I don't see the problem.

On a personal level, I would rather not use anything from Microsoft. Fairly recently I've decided to cut myself completely from Microsoft all together.
Their basic business model is so far from what I want to contribute to. Anyway I switched to Linux only and am not looking back. I admit Torque 3D getting a Linux port was one of the last requirements before switching.
LukasPJ
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by LukasPJ » Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:12 pm
Jason Campbell wrote:As long as TS continues to work, I don't see the problem.

On a personal level, I would rather not use anything from Microsoft. Fairly recently I've decided to cut myself completely from Microsoft all together.
Their basic business model is so far from what I want to contribute to. Anyway I switched to Linux only and am not looking back. I admit Torque 3D getting a Linux port was one of the last requirements before switching.


It should work just fine, the changes that are being considered is probably just the ones from this commit. (Which is not finished, but that is the changes needed to get most of the C# stuff working)
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